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Author Topic:   'The Case Of Alicia Keys vs Indie.Arie'
bams
SWMBO
posted 03-21-2002 08:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bams   Click Here to Email bams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't get it.

I don't get the sudden backlash against Alicia Keyes. It's everywhere, with the latest coming from - of all people - Rick James. We're discussing this on an email list Diva and I are on, but dig this quote from the SuperFreak himself:

"**Don't ask Rick James about Alicia Keys. In the latest edition of the Ru Report, at EURweb.com, James snaps, "I don't think about Alicia Keys. What about Rachelle Ferrell? Lalah Hathaway? Put Alicia Keys on the same stage with [them] and let's see what happens - Alicia Keys might run home and quit. Throw her keyboard away and start crying."

Now, clearly, I love me some Rachelle Ferrell, and have often carped about lesser artists than her - artists not qualified to carry Rachelle's Jockstrap - squirming across stage and getting all the attention. And I certainly think that Indie.Arie didn't get her propers at the Grammies. But unlike many of those aforementioned squirming hoochies, Keyes is not a lip-synching, talentless hack. I don't get the sudden backlash.

An interesting quote from one of my listmates, which is something that I'd heard said before: "Some are even saying it's because Keys is light skin and India Arie is a darker skinned woman. I don't really buy that, but I've heard a surprising number of people (mostly black women) that are buying in to that."

Seems like We're still still stuck on the Paper Bag Test...sigh

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utzworld
SWMBO
posted 03-21-2002 09:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for utzworld   Click Here to Email utzworld     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bams:
I don't get it.

I don't get the sudden backlash against Alicia Keyes. It's everywhere, with the latest coming from - of all people - Rick James. We're discussing this on an email list Diva and I are on, but dig this quote from the SuperFreak himself:

"**Don't ask Rick James about Alicia Keys. In the latest edition of the Ru Report, at EURweb.com, James snaps, "I don't think about Alicia Keys. What about Rachelle Ferrell? Lalah Hathaway? Put Alicia Keys on the same stage with [them] and let's see what happens - Alicia Keys might run home and quit. Throw her keyboard away and start crying."

Now, clearly, I love me some Rachelle Ferrell, and have often carped about lesser artists than her - artists not qualified to carry Rachelle's Jockstrap - squirming across stage and getting all the attention. And I certainly think that Indie.Arie didn't get her propers at the Grammies. But unlike many of those aforementioned squirming hoochies, Keyes is not a lip-synching, talentless hack. I don't get the sudden backlash.

An interesting quote from one of my listmates, which is something that I'd heard said before: "Some are even saying it's because Keys is light skin and India Arie is a darker skinned woman. I don't really buy that, but I've heard a surprising number of people (mostly black women) that are buying in to that."

Seems like We're still still stuck on the Paper Bag Test...sigh


WARNING...THE FOLLOWING REPLY WILL CONTAIN STRONG PROFANITY...

Mr. Superfreak's comments are the biggest bunch of horseshit i've ever seen! I guess his ignorant ass didn't read the big Los Angeles Times article with Alicia and India INTERVIEWED JOINTLY and with both of them posed on the cover of the Calendar section.

They both stated that they are indeed fans of each other's work and let it be known that there is NO BEEF between them.

Read it for yourself right here...and have your email discussion list take a look for themselves:

http://www.calendarlive.com/top/1,1419,L-LATimes-Search-X!ArticleDetail-51879,00.html

Rick James needs to shut his wasted, cracked out ass the fuck up!

[This message has been edited by utzworld (edited 03-21-2002).]

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bams
SWMBO
posted 03-21-2002 09:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bams   Click Here to Email bams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by utzworld:
WARNING...THE FOLLOWING REPLY WILL CONTAIN STRONG PROFANITY...

This "debate" is the biggest bunch of horseshit i've ever seen! I guess these ignorant ass people didn't read the big Los Angeles Times article with Alicia and India INTERVIEWED JOINTLY and with both of them posed on the cover of the Calendar section.

They both stated that they are indeed fans of each other's work and let it be known that there is NO BEEF between them.


Hmmm. Either you misread me, or that was a bad judgement call on my part. That "case" (in quotes in my subject line) was, um, poetic license. I didn't mean to imply that they have beef with each other, only that others are playing one against the other, instead of dealing with them as individuals.

But the questions, about why Alicia is getting so much flak, and why Indie came back with no gold, stands.

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utzworld
SWMBO
posted 03-21-2002 09:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for utzworld   Click Here to Email utzworld     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bams:
Hmmm. Either you misread me, or that was a bad judgement call on my part. That "case" (in quotes in my subject line) was, um, poetic license. I didn't mean to imply that they have beef with each other, only that others are playing one against the other, instead of dealing with them as individuals.

But the questions, about why Alicia is getting so much flak, and why Indie came back with no gold, stands.


go back and read my edited comments above.

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coquinegra
Friend of 3BC
posted 03-21-2002 09:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for coquinegra   Click Here to Email coquinegra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I believe two things are at play here:

1) CLIVE DAVIS...nuff said

2) marketability...Both India and
Alicia ARE very talented and no two
women have come out like this since I
don't know when. But Since we are all
folks, let me say that SHADE IS A FACTOR.
Like it's NEWS that a bi-racial girl is
more marketable than a dark skinned sister
who is HAPPY TO BE NAPPY! I think NOT.

I have love in my heart and space on my CD rack for Alicia AND India, just like I
have room for Eryka AND Lauren and jill
AND Angie and LYTE and LATIFAH for that matter.

That having been said, India WUZ robbed. One of those little gold statuettes should
have been hers...maybe more than one.
They should have split them evenly.

quote:
Originally posted by bams:
Hmmm. Either you misread me, or that was a bad judgement call on my part. That "case" (in quotes in my subject line) was, um, poetic license. I didn't mean to imply that they have beef with each other, only that others are playing one against the other, instead of dealing with them as individuals.

But the questions, about why Alicia is getting so much flak, and why Indie came back with no gold, stands.


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bams
SWMBO
posted 03-21-2002 09:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bams   Click Here to Email bams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by utzworld:
go back and read my edited comments above.

You're concentrating on the wrong thing, Chris. The two-fold question at hand is not why Keyes and Arie are (or are not) at odds with each other; it's why is there so much flak right now over Keyes, and why is she more accepted than Arie. The article is fine, but it doesn't address the issue at hand.

I starting to regret using that "cute" subject line, though.

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utzworld
SWMBO
posted 03-21-2002 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for utzworld   Click Here to Email utzworld     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coquinegra:
I believe two things are at play here:

1) CLIVE DAVIS...nuff said

2) marketability...Both India and
Alicia ARE very talented and no two
women have come out like this since I
don't know when. But Since we are all
folks, let me say that SHADE IS A FACTOR.
Like it's NEWS that a bi-racial girl is
more marketable than a dark skinned sister
who is HAPPY TO BE NAPPY! I think NOT.

I have love in my heart and space on my CD rack for Alicia AND India, just like I
have room for Eryka AND Lauren and jill
AND Angie and LYTE and LATIFAH for that matter.

That having been said, India WUZ robbed. One of those little gold statuettes should
have been hers...maybe more than one.
They should have split them evenly.


I feel ya, Doc, on the Clive Davis thing. I think he IS the most powerful man in the music business. The fact that he personally anointed Alicia as "the next big thing" and had his marketing staff reemphasize that fact all last year was the major reason why the album busted 5 million plus along with going 5 for 6 at the Grammys.

Personally, i think "Songs In A Minor" was okay. There were a few good singles but the album, to me, seemed kinda "immature" to me. Lyrically, India.Arie is far far far more superior.

In a perfect world, India and Alicia...along with Aaliyah and Mary J. woulda all got at least one Grammy (i think the best song of last year was not "Fallin" or "Video" but "Family Affair"). But it ain't...and here we are.


------------------
...and that's all i have to say about that.

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utzworld
SWMBO
posted 03-21-2002 09:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for utzworld   Click Here to Email utzworld     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bams:
The two-fold question at hand is not why Keyes and Arie are (or are not) at odds with each other; it's why is there so much flak right now over Keyes, and why is she more accepted than Arie.


i can answer that. it ain't about skin color. it's about 5 millon plus for "Songs In A Minor" versus 1 million plus for "Acoustic Soul."

marketing, baby, marketing!

Motown/Universal Music didn't push India in heavy ass pop/R&B/MTV/BET/VH1 rotation like J Records/BMG did. you couldn't go anywhere last summer without hearing or seeing "Fallin" on the radio or at the video. I never even heard the song "Video" until I bought India.Arie's CD.

And, once again, the most powerful man in music personally christened her as "the next big thing." Needless to say, India.Arie did not get that kind of endorsement.

The Power Of Marketing.

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dreamer
Friend of 3BC
posted 03-21-2002 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dreamer   Click Here to Email dreamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hate this debate. All (belated) personal preferances aside, these two artists were not remotely considered on even-ground (by anyone from the industry or critics in the predicting business) when it came to the Grammy competition. Keys was easily ranked as the #1 favorite in their head-to-head categories while India.Arie was more like #4 or #5.

India.Arie's wonderful (and encouraging) multi-nominations, themselves, were a huge surprise (which led to some misguided expectations, apparently). No one in the academy could quite figure out where the votes came from.

On the other hand, Keys (like her or hate her -- and skin tone IS a big issue), had a record (over-hyped or not) that rocked the world and was a multi-Grammy-nom lock. Denying her multiple awards would have been like denying Thriller its awards, in spite of its overwhelming success and global saturation, because you thought someone of lesser stature was being wrongly overlooked. (Personally, I prefer Off The Wall to Thriller's fluff and I thought the Police's multi-nominated Synchronicity was a superior album in '83, but it would be absurd to question Thriller's never-in-doubt multiple Grammy wins!)

India.Arie (whose "Video" single and Acoustic Soul album were nice and decently-reviewed but had no real impact until AFTER the "surprise" nominations) was simply not even in direct competition with Keys. Both Jill Scott and Mary J. Blige should have ranked ahead, in people's minds, of India Arie Simpson in some of those head-to-head categories. Why do people cry only for India.Arie (who somehow, freakily, "stole" a "Best Album" slot from Keys, who might have won that too, if nominated)?

The question should be why are Keys and India.Arie being compared at all. They weren't even remotely on the same planet in terms of competitiveness or stature (again, personal preferances aside). And where were all these sudden India.Arie fans when her album was fading out at 400,000 copies sold way back when, compared to Keys' 11x that, months ago --- no-one was talking about this neo-soul folkie who had trouble getting played on r&b radio then?).

Keys' Grammy wins were as predictable (and deserved, given her worldwide impact and chart/popular success) as the sun rising. She was a "revelation" months ago but now the "revisionists" see her as a "fraud" or a "hype." Huh? The real question should be, why this debate exists at all (and no other)? Far more "hyped" stars have been shut-out before (see Mariah Carey's embarrassing 0-6 in '95, and others).

What are the real agendas here in this needlessly divisive talent vs. talent debate? I think we know. Besides the usual "conspiracy" against "real talent," there's the opportunistic "light vs. dark," "hype vs. non-hype" ...etc. stuff, though India.Arie DID actually get plenty of hype, as her effective nomination campaign demonstrated.

All successful artists have received some form of HYPE along the way. That's understood. It's TOUGH to get on the radio and MTV (it's even tougher to stay there). Someone's always workin' somethin' behind-the-scenes, even for the "lesser" acts. The "hype" argument always bugs me. Plenty of "hyped" acts fall flat. Sometimes the "hype" is deserved and needed to get a great talent out there to the masses. No one "accidently" shows up on your radio or in your cd rack. Decisions are made all the time on who should
get a shot. I take that as a "given" when following the music world. It's a tough, risky business. No one wants to lose money on an act.

Anyway, it seems as though Keys' biggest faults are being too successful (especially in the mainstream!), too pretty and too well-supported (as MOST potential stars are, though it even took her 5 years to get there and she still had to deliver or all the "hype" would have been for naught). If she had failed to reach such a wide audience (and remained obscure) then maybe folks would be more appreciative of this 21-year-old prodigy who brought some long-missing Gospel-tinged, piano-heavy soul back to the very top of the TOP 40. She should get multiple awards for just accomplishing that alone.

No doubt, success always brings out the daggers. Not here. There's plenty of room for both artists in my cd rack.

Let's hope folks can ultimately check their agendas at the door and just ... listen and enjoy (for a change).

[This message has been edited by dreamer (edited 03-21-2002).]

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utzworld
SWMBO
posted 03-21-2002 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for utzworld   Click Here to Email utzworld     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well said, Dreamer.

by the way...does anybody remember the last artist whom Clive Davis anointed as "the next big thing?"


her name was Whitney Houston.

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bams
SWMBO
posted 03-21-2002 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bams   Click Here to Email bams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by utzworld:
well said, Dreamer.

by the way...does anybody remember the last artist whom Clive Davis anointed as "the next big thing?"


her name was Whitney Houston.


Um...your point is...?

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bams
SWMBO
posted 03-21-2002 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bams   Click Here to Email bams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dreamer:
I hate this debate.

In all the confusion, I'm not sure that we're all even discussing the same thing.

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utzworld
SWMBO
posted 03-21-2002 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for utzworld   Click Here to Email utzworld     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bams:
In all the confusion, I'm not sure that we're all even discussing the same thing.

I thought we were comparing and contrasting Alicia Keys's success with India.Arie's. IMHO, this was a really good discussion. Nothing confusing at all. Each contributor made strong and valid points.

Were you expecting us to dig deeper into the "light-skinned/dark-skinned" debate?

...and my POINT was an (obviously failed) attempt to shed some light on the astronomical success of Alicia Keys. Because I know how Hollywood operates, I knew that it just wasn't her skin color that contributed to her success. I attribute that success to Clive Davis's mega-watt JUICE in the music industry. He did the same thing with Whitney Houston back in 84-85. And Whitney's first success and Alicia's current success are both along the same path...and all signs point to Clive Davis.

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bams
SWMBO
posted 03-21-2002 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bams   Click Here to Email bams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by utzworld:
I thought we were comparing and contrasting Alicia Keys's success with India.Arie's.

You may have been, but that's not what I asked; not all I asked, anyway.

quote:


IMHO, this was a really good discussion. Nothing confusing at all. Each contributor made strong and valid points.

"Strong and valid points" aside, the confusion lies over answering the question as it was put. And you, my friend, didn't, not for a long time. Doc Kim did in part; Dreamer did, right at the end. I can't remember much else right now, and I'm running late for Art.

quote:


Were you expecting us to dig deeper into the "light-skinned/dark-skinned" debate?

A direct answer, or discussion, would've been nice.

quote:


...and my POINT was an (obviously failed) attempt to shed some light on the astronomical success of Alicia Keys. Because I know how Hollywood operates, I knew that it just wasn't her skin color that contributed to her success. I attribute that success to Clive Davis's mega-watt JUICE in the music industry. He did the same thing with Whitney Houston back in 84-85. And Whitney's first success and Alicia's current success are both along the same path...and all signs point to Clive Davis.

BUT
THAT'S
NOT
WHAT
I
ASKED.

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dreamer
Friend of 3BC
posted 03-21-2002 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dreamer   Click Here to Email dreamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by utzworld:
Because I know how Hollywood operates, I knew that it just wasn't her skin color that contributed to her success. I attribute that success to Clive Davis's mega-watt JUICE in the music industry. He did the same thing with Whitney Houston back in 84-85. And Whitney's first success and Alicia's current success are both along the same path...and all signs point to Clive Davis.

Yuck. So talent has nothing to do with success (when you're a light-skinned performer)? It's just gotta be somethin' else.

Keys is a MAJOR talent and was one, long before Davis and J Records came around. She was signed to Columbia at 16 and was clearly a child prodigy. Does her light skin disqualify her from reaping the rewards of her gifts?

This is why I hate this debate. It's about everything but (Alicia's obvious) talent. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear (even if you are Clive Davis).

India.Arie is simply not on the same level (in a variety of ways, from material to performance to impact) as Keys. Check the reviews of their albums before all the hoopla. Before the backlash, Keys was heavily-praised. No amount of "hype" could have made India.Arie as popular as Keys (though her time may yet come). She just didn't have the "breakout" song, album or charisma (though that doesn't mean she doesn't have her own solid musical niche and isn't a beauty).

Talent and "hype" are not mutually exclusive, especially when someone, like expert musicologist Clive Davis, finds himself with a thoroughbred in his stable (e.g., Keys or Houston) and has the means/skill to nurture and present that talent to the world for optimum effect.

Who wouldn't?

[This message has been edited by dreamer (edited 03-21-2002).]

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bayzoo
Friend of 3BC
posted 03-21-2002 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bayzoo   Click Here to Email bayzoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I too have heard many comments (all from Black women) about the skin color issue. I haven't given any of this much thought (if you've read any of my previous rants, you'll know that I don't give a S*** about many of these film and music awards shows - I don't think they are a true measure/determinant of what the best out there are, being run more like political campaigns than anything else). With that being said, I don't own either of the CDs in question, but I have heard tracks from each one, and have not been particularly moved to rush out and pick up my own copies. I think both are just as talented, but Arie's lyrics seem more mature - which makes some sense, because she is the older of the two!

As I see it, the main thing that each of these women needs to be worried about is STAYING POWER! Whose 15 minutes of fame is almost up? If I were either of them, my concerns would not be on how many Grammys I win, but rather on creating from the gut, and building a strong, loyal fan base, even if it means alienating myself from the "mainstream," not being nominated nor winning any "major" awards, and making less money! For example, I would much rather be a Meshell Ndegeocello (whom I love to death, so I'm a little biased), than a Destiny's Child. Meshell has been, and will be around for a long time - I strongly believe - but I don't feel Destiny's Child has similar staying power, but I could be proven wrong, in the long run.

My question to everyone is this: Is the "lighter is better" complex really still prevalent today? I remember some years ago all the flap about "brothers" jumping on the "light-skinned" girls because they were the "beautiful" ones, and ignoring the "dark-skinned" women! But I thought we were over that! What do you all think?

------------------
See.. Hear... Feel...

[This message has been edited by bayzoo (edited 03-21-2002).]

[This message has been edited by bayzoo (edited 03-22-2002).]

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onechick
Friend of 3BC
posted 03-22-2002 07:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for onechick   Click Here to Email onechick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bayzoo:

My question to everyone is this: [b]Is the "lighter is better" complex really still prevalent today?
I remember some years ago all the flap about "brothers" jumping on the "light-skinned" girls because they were the "beautiful" ones, and ignoring the "dark-skinned" women! But I thought we were over that! What do you all think?


[/B]

I really believe that the light vs. dark issue will never be resolved (in the African American community). It's like blonde vs. brunette, just one of those things. I respect both Alicia Keyes and India Arie. I appreciate that both write their own music and play instruments and are changing the way women can be viewed in the music world. I really don't believe in the music industry the light vs. dark issue carries much weight. However, with everything being marketable to the masses always helps and I think with Alicia Keys its more style than skin color. Remember Lauryn Hill won big in the Grammy's several years ago and she was on many magazine covers. It helps a whole lot to be marketable to teenage girls (Brittney Spears).

I watched the Grammys and I really believe Alicia Keyes (even at only 21 years old) understands that awards don't guarantee continued success. She graciously accepted the awards with class and maturity and seems to be not affected by the whole superstar thing-I think she just enjoys playing the music and just happens to be beautiful. The focus here has been on India Arie and Alicia Keyes but there is also a young white performer (Nelly Furtado) who received several nominations and also much video and radio play.

I think the publicity of the Grammys will help India Arie's career so that's a good thing.

On another note and not to start another debate I hope Halle Berry wins the Oscar. I just like her. I can't help but like someone who chooses as her personal hero her fifth grade teacher (an African American woman).

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utzworld
SWMBO
posted 03-22-2002 09:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for utzworld   Click Here to Email utzworld     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
to FINALLY answer your question, Bammer, I didn't think Alicia Keys is/was getting any "flak" at all...at least not here in HO-llywood. In fact, to hear that she's getting flak from anybody, especially her own, is shocking to me (hence my strong profanity).

So...i have no answer to your question. From my vantage point, Alicia Keys has gained much love and respect from US and THEM. I'm not shocked to see people trying to pit Alicia and India against one another...they did the same crap to Whitney and Mariah. I posted the LA Times article to diffuse any of those "rumors."

And for a rebuttal to your post, Dreamer, for some strange reason you interpeted from my post that I thought Alicia had no talent. I never said that. I never even mentioned her talent. TALENT is a given. We wouldn't even be discussing her if she didn't have the talent.

But, IMHO, it was her talent PLUS Clive Davis's mega-watt juice PLUS that high-powered MTV/VHI/BET/Pop/R&B Radio marketing campaign that got her here. Even you can't deny that! That's all i was trying to say. Sorry you misinterpeted me.

[This message has been edited by utzworld (edited 03-22-2002).]

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Dnice
Regulator
posted 03-22-2002 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dnice     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, here's my weak attempt to add some levity to the discussion. Pardon my tackiness...

From A Woman's Worth

And a real woman knows a real man always comes first

Maybe I'm just an old married lady and things have changed, but I'm not sure about that!

Btw, I interpreted the original question in this thread as "why the backlash against AK?" I read EUR (Electronic Urban Report) and the issue came up there. It bugged me that some people wanted to reduce the matter to folks "hatin'" on Alicia, presumably everyone was okay with her when she was relatively unknown and then suddenly turned on her the more popular she became. Because of her skin color. Um, wasn't she light-skinned when she first appeared on the scene?

Anyway, I don't know that the backlash (for lack of a better word) can be simply defined. I think some people are jealous and mean-spirted. Others, like myself, enjoyed Fallin' but didn't fall all over the whole album or embrace the musical genius label for her. The comparison, either/or things with India.Arie makes no sense to me.

I enjoyed reading the Essence article in which Alicia and Roberta Flack dialogued. She sounds pretty grounded. My reaction to Chris's reference to Whitney Houston, was "Please don't let her go down THAT path!"

As far as Rick James goes, people who refer to themselves in the 3rd person usually aren't saying anything worthwhile, anyway.

Deesha

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coquinegra
Friend of 3BC
posted 03-22-2002 10:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for coquinegra   Click Here to Email coquinegra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by utzworld:

In a perfect world, India and Alicia...along with Aaliyah and Mary J. woulda all got at least one Grammy (i think the best song of last year was not "Fallin" or "Video" but "Family Affair"). But it ain't...and here we are.


In a perfect world, Mary J. would be flipping burgers.

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Dnice
Regulator
posted 03-22-2002 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dnice     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coquinegra:
In a perfect world, Mary J. would be flipping burgers.

I don't particularly agree, but I am LMAO!!!

Deesha

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bams
SWMBO
posted 03-22-2002 11:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bams   Click Here to Email bams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Four things, first things first:

1) A public apology to Chris. I definitely didn't mean to Go There with you, hon. You are my ace boon, and you've been the best friend 3BC ever had.

b) I definitely didn't mean to imply that even the parts of the conversation that didn't address my original question, weren't worthy of consideration. They are.

Ok, now that that's done...

III) Thanks, Dnice, for "light'nin thangs up roun' hea". That was right on time - and on-point.

9) oohwee, Doc Kim! But on the real, I thought I was The Only One who thought Mary J. tended to hang out on the flat side of the musical scale...

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bams
SWMBO
posted 03-22-2002 11:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bams   Click Here to Email bams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Had'ta address this...


quote:
Originally posted by Dnice:
Okay, here's my weak attempt to add some levity to the discussion. Pardon my tackiness...

From A Woman's Worth

And a real woman knows a real man always comes first

Maybe I'm just an old married lady and things have changed, but I'm not sure about that!
Deesha



oooh chile you ain't NEVA lied...


/bams (not a real good man, anyway!)

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coquinegra
Friend of 3BC
posted 03-25-2002 05:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for coquinegra   Click Here to Email coquinegra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hanging out there? She lives there! I guess I just "don't get it". The one thing I demand when buy a CD is that the artist can stay on key...I learned how to do it at 15, any kid in the sunbeam choir can do it, dare I say it, the gal cannot sing! Does she write and produce her own stuff? I don't get it...

quote:
Originally posted by bams:
Four things, first things first:

9) oohwee, Doc Kim! But on the real, I thought I was The Only One who thought Mary J. tended to hang out on the flat side of the musical scale...


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bobby
The New Kid
posted 12-03-2003 12:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bobby   Click Here to Email bobby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have to agree with Rick James to a degree, I think Alicia Keys is good, but not great.
Give her some time and she may one day be considered greatness by the greats. Rick is a legend, but he doesn't like George Clinton either, so what do you expect.

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c_los
Friend of 3BC
posted 12-12-2003 09:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for c_los   Click Here to Email c_los     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The reason for my backlash against Alicia is a very common one...overexposure and oversaturation of one or two songs. I don't have any personal bad opinions of her. It's just that I got literally sick of hearing Fallin and A Woman's Worth over and over again on every radio station and every TV talk show. The industry usually only promotes one or two of an artists songs from each album. Because of this, I began to equate Alicia with these songs that I had grown to hate simply because they were overplayed.

However, I will say that Rachelle Farrell and Lalah Hathaway are very talented singers who get far less publicity than their talent deserves. However, when I consider that popularity is far less about talent than mass appeal then I have to reconsider what I just said. Even though Rachelle and Lalah are excellent singers, their songs, style, and overall image are not as appealing to the masses and they are also not marketed as well. In the case of Rachelle, I think she has a great voice but none of her songs are moving. I can't remember the words or the tune to a single one of them. In any case, I think the point that Rick James was trying to make is that there are many talented singers who overlooked while a precious few seem to get an overabundance of publicity and promotion and support. This is nothing new. We have the same statements made about films on this board all the time. We are always complaining about movies like Scary Movie 3 making a hundred million when some other films that we feel to be higher quality languish in relative obscurity.

This was a good discussion. I'm glad Bams brought it up. Personally, I never could understand why Cheryl Lynn and Jennifer Holiday were not more popular in the early 80's. I also wonder why Carl Thomas and Donell Jones are not more popular than R. Kelly. Just my thoughts and ramblings.

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utzworld
SWMBO
posted 12-13-2003 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for utzworld   Click Here to Email utzworld     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by c_los:
The reason for my backlash against Alicia is a very common one...overexposure and oversaturation of one or two songs. I don't have any personal bad opinions of her. It's just that I got literally sick of hearing Fallin and A Woman's Worth over and over again on every radio station and every TV talk show. The industry usually only promotes one or two of an artists songs from each album. Because of this, I began to equate Alicia with these songs that I had grown to hate simply because they were overplayed.

I will say this: her latest single "You Don't Know My Name" is better than ALL THE SONGS on her last album. That is an awesome awesome awesome song!

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cookie1010
The New Kid
posted 09-25-2005 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cookie1010     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTe) listen you 3 black witches, i think you need to chill out and stop being so harsh on alicia! you obviously have low self estteem to be gossiping about others peace

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cookie1010
The New Kid
posted 09-25-2005 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cookie1010     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
you know what i think you all made great points but i think that there is definitely some haters goin around hatin on her because she's black and white which means she has to take hate from bothe sides but i only have one thing to say to haters

attention this portion is graphiclly intense.
**** YOU GUYS YOU ***WIPES!

[This message has been edited by utzworld (edited 09-26-2005).]

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cpeer
Friend of 3BC
posted 09-25-2005 10:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cpeer   Click Here to Email cpeer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cookie,

I'm a little surprised at your comments for the following reasons.

1. No one, and I mean NO ONE, in this thread criticised Alicia Keyes. There was not even one comment from a member here disrespecting her. Therefore I question your reading comprehension.

2. Ground Rules are clearly posted elsewhere and your comments break the very basic rules against personal attacks. Therefore I question your maturity.

3. As has also clearly been posted, one of the 3 black chicks just lost her home in New Orleans and folks are helping to get her and here family on their feet again. Which means they will not be around to enforce the rules by moderating this sight or responding to your comments. Name-calling now (ie kicking a girl when she is down) is about as classy as a fart in church. Therefore I question your ethics.

[This message has been edited by cpeer (edited 09-25-2005).]

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utzworld
SWMBO
posted 09-26-2005 01:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for utzworld   Click Here to Email utzworld     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpeer:
Cookie,

I'm a little surprised at your comments for the following reasons.

1. No one, and I mean NO ONE, in this thread criticised Alicia Keyes. There was not even one comment from a member here disrespecting her. Therefore I question your reading comprehension.

2. Ground Rules are clearly posted elsewhere and your comments break the very basic rules against personal attacks. Therefore I question your maturity.

3. As has also clearly been posted, one of the 3 black chicks just lost her home in New Orleans and folks are helping to get her and here family on their feet again. Which means they will not be around to enforce the rules by moderating this sight or responding to your comments. Name-calling now (ie kicking a girl when she is down) is about as classy as a fart in church. Therefore I question your ethics.


I'll add a #4: He/she is commenting on a friggin 3 year old topic!!! That's why we put those date thingies ("posted 09-26-2005 01:04 AM") at the front of our posts.

Ignorance abounds yet again...

[This message has been edited by utzworld (edited 09-26-2005).]

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meloddot
The New Kid
posted 11-28-2005 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for meloddot   Click Here to Email meloddot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well replying to this debate about alicia keys and indie arie... it is 2005 now and its clear who is standing the test of time and who is better (alicia keys) everyone wanna beat around the bush about the light skin issue, well im a guy and i have alot of guy friends and every guy friend i have is absolutly stuck on the fact that alicia is of itlian and african decent and they love her skin, imagery is huge in the felid of rnb....maybe not rap but no one wants to see hilary clinton late night on bet singing about how bill cheated on her half naked with some victoria secret on....WE WANT ALICIA, now im not taking away from her genius cause that girl is a monster with her music the best in the biss in my eyes, everytime she comes out with a track me and my man sit down at my keyboard and figure out the whole song, shes great and indie arie is nothing case close keeping it real!!!!!

------------------
jamel stribling

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